WOWOW Hamlet celebration interview
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| Kuroki Haru (Ophelia) and Okada Masaki (Hamlet) promoting the WOWOW broadcast for 31 August 2019 |
日本語の本文もあります。最後まで、スクロるしてください。Wisteriaさん、ありがとうございました！
Pardon my absence for the last few months; my real life prevented me from doing anything Masaki-related (translation とか, making a new MV とか…). But in late September, Wisteria-san sent me her transcription of an interview that Okada Masaki and Kuroki Haru made for the Hamlet WOWOW broadcast, and I really like that interview. Hence, here’s my translation of that interview transcript. Wisteria-san was actually more than capable of translating their interview into English herself, but I specifically asked her to send me her transcription in Kanji and kana, so that I can practice my Japanese. Hence, any mistakes in this translation is entirely mine, except for some parts where I’ve asked Wisteria-san for help, for those parts proved to be too difficult for me to understand.
While I understand that most overseas fans have not seen Hamlet yet (IDK whether anyone has uploaded the WOWOW broadcast of Hamlet), I hope you can connect once again with Masaki here. We haven’t heard much from him this semester, but I think he’s doing well. He looked healthy and happy in his short Christmas gig; it seems he has finally caught much of his needed sleep.
Also, Merry Christmas for this 2019 and Happy New Year for 2020. So many things have happened (and continue to happen) world-wide, such that I really hope we can have true peace (and yes, justice and freedom as well) in 2020. I think we deserve no less.
And I hope we see more of Masaki and his work in 2020. I do miss him so…
The WOWOW Hamlet celebration interview
Solo interview
About the stage appearance
My stage debut was with Ninagawa-san. The first time I did the stage play with him has been such a great fortune for me. He taught me the fun and fear of the stage, he truly triggered my love for the stage. For that, I am very grateful. Even now, I have the feeling that Ninagawa-san is watching every performance of this Hamlet.
About the stage practice
Well, this Hamlet is truly a work made by everyone. This scene’s interpretation was born out of everyone’s idea, which was then incorporated into this performance. Such was the style of this production. Although I am playing Hamlet, I think it was truly everyone’s work. Indeed, every day at the practice hall, the idea of each person in the entire cast was used. I had a lot of lines, hence I had my own hardship. However, I truly have the impression that this work was created together with everyone.
About the team
As Simon would often say, communication is very important to everyone. Thus, before the first rehearsal began, the team would form a tiny circle and check everyone’s physical and mental conditions. From then on, we started the practice. Only then I basically felt that the practice hall was open. Yet I now think that such a habit is a good practice.
It was truly the first time for me to understand something like, “Ah, s/he was having a hard time today”. That’s why everyone in this team wholeheartedly creates this production.
(Thanks so much, Wisteria-san for your advice on this part!)
Thus, I keep this thing that I have noticed and pointed out earlier alive for the next performance. This time, I am also using that habit (of checking that everyone is okay), such that I feel that the team that Simon has created remains here this time around.
On facing the first day
Oh, I was really scared. That fear was so real…The role of Hamlet I have this time was a role that I truly felt, such that when I was alone on the stage, I became very scared. But the (lighting) team somewhat truly showed me the way by illuminating me with the light, thus after finishing that performance, I thought that the stage was truly lovely. On that first day, I truly felt that this Hamlet, created together by this team, was truly a work that would remain in my memory. Yes, I truly feel so.
With Kuroki Haru, the actress of Ophelia
Regarding Director Simon Godwin
Masaki (M): He’s truly an interesting person, right?
Haru (H): Yes, he’s truly interesting. He’s like, “Good! Good! Yeah!” (ed: giving encouragement) so that we can increase the tension as expected.
M: Yes, but Haru-chan, although you already said that before, in the first place, it’s not that I disagree with you or what, but I think Simon did that mainly to praise the actors first. Then, from there on, he started to give more corrections.
(Note: Masaki called Haru “Haru-chan”, which I find very cute… - Okay, it’s not a secret that I actually ship these two IRL as well because Haru totally supported Masaki during and after the curtain calls, as well as that Masaki also waited for Haru during the get-together after some performances…)
H: So it seems.
M: It‘s really lovely. Regarding struggles or difficulties, what did Simon say about that?...We shouldn’t beat around the bush when saying a word like “This is it!”. The first time I failed to understand something, though Simon said, “Not like that, Masaki! It’s like this, like this, here, it’s like this!”, I still couldn’t understand it, and that was quite a struggle. But because the understanding came gradually, I eventually had fun.
H: What kind of thing was that, the thing you didn’t understand?
M: Ah, that one. When he said, “Masaki, the Master!”
H: Ah, okay, okay. Is that when he said, “A cat!”
M: Yes! He said, “Masaki, a cat! A cat!” I can only say about that scene. Anyway, I should do something like a cat. Then I should become a master, then be a tiger, and so on and so forth..., hahaha!
H: Ah, okay… But I feel that you slowly understood it, thus it was interesting, wasn’t it?
M: Yes, wasn’t it interesting? Ah, right, when you understand what you’ve been seeking for, it creates a very good relationship with the performance itself and the rest of the cast, doesn’t it? Thus, the practice hall was fun… Now, every day I go on, thinking of what awaits me today.
Favourite scenes
H: I like the scene with the Polonius family. It was bright (heart-warming)…
M: It was indeed bright.
H: After all, there is only that one happy scene…
M: Quite so.
H: Yes.
M: Well, there’s no happy scene at all for me.
H: Hahaha!
M: None at all. From the start, I was already at the bottom, depressed, right…
H: Indeed, from the beginning. But do you truly not have any happy scenes?
(Note: Haru was saying “waaa-”, which I interpreted as heart-warming or happy scene. Since later Masaki replied with a Horatio-related scene, I take it Haru was asking about a happy scene)
M: Well, yes, there’s the scene with Horatio, the moment when Hamlet truly grasped the truth (of his father’s death), the play between the two of them was fun.
H: Yes, that one was nice.
M: Yes, perhaps it’s true that, there are moments this time where I was involved with the audience and they somehow sympathized with me (my role).
Favourite lines
M: It’s not that I’m praising myself, but there’s a line which, from the meaning alone, is very good; it is also quite different every day. Because of that, the “To be or not to be” is of course also a very famous line and that’s why I like it. Even in ordinary conversations, this line is surprisingly good. Lately, the line is also famous in the context of “the wind of impermanence”, thus I like it.
(Note: I think the 「無常の風は」or the “the wind of impermanence” must be referring to a recent (per mid 2019) event in Japan? Or did Masaki just talk about the general impermanence of life?)
Also, “Whatever will be will be” is something that becomes increasingly important, thus I’ve been quite fond of this “To be or not to be” line as of late.
(note: I translated 「なるようになればよい」or `naru yō ni nareba yoi' into “Whatever will be will be” or “Que sera sera”)
H: I like the last line.
M: Eh, which last line?
H: Well, that was when everyone started to have heart-pounding moments, the moment that I thought the viewers got their hearts pounding like crazy. “Are everyone truly watching silently like that…?”, so I thought.
M: I wouldn’t be able to tell, but I think I saw the audience’s behaviour in front of me...I might have seen them. More and more people covering their mouths with their hands and turning their eyes away, right? (laugh)
H: Yes, indeed.
M: That’s why I think it was interesting… Slowly slowly, by watching me acting so, gradually everyone was covering their mouths with their hands in sync (laugh). I find it very interesting indeed.
(note: I translated 連鎖的に as “in sync”)
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| Don't know which one was sadder. Hamlet and Gertrude's (Matsuyuki Yatsuko) final farewell... (Source) |
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| Or Hamlet's and Horatio's (Tateyama Hayata) final farewell... (Source) |
The fun scenes
H: There was that grape-throwing scene (laugh). Every time, I either changed the number of grapes I threw, or I didn’t throw the grape, or I tried throwing a strawberry. In fact, I made minor changes every time such that Tamaki-san and others ran backstage and passed me totally unrelated snacks. I was indeed a bit too playful…
(Note: Haru mentioned a word ボルティ (Balti? Volty?) of which meaning I don’t understand. Google produced images of motorcycles when I googled that word…)
Everyone made slight changes to freshen things up. Hajime-san also changed his positions every now and then…
M: Is that so…
H: As for me, there was that scene where Hamlet was resting on my lap...There were some playful moments (laugh) where you were making “Ha! Ha!” noise, and I always had to refrain from laughing.
M: It was because I was so excited and kept saying “Ha! Ha!” or so to Hana-chan, because it was amusing to see your reactions…
(Thanks so much, Wisteria-san for your advice on this part!)
H: It was a bit lonely without it.
M: Ah haha!... Well, I really hope that our viewers understand that we’re having fun while portraying our roles so that the viewers also can enjoy the performance.
About the highlights
H: I think it is a fast-paced play. With respect to the characters, it’s not just about Hamlet and Ophelia alone; it also truly contains the back stories of each character. Because I think it’s a play where human relationships truly emerge, well, I think watching it live would be different from watching it from the broadcast. However, I think you can see the detailed expressions of the actors just because of watching it on the broadcast. Thus, I hope you enjoy watching it.
M: This time around, this Hamlet – with this cast, staff and also Simon – is ready, but it is not yet finished. It is a production with plenty room for growth. It’s a work where everyone can make their own inquiries (about the play) and create something good out of it. Thus, after that premiere that went away in an instant, after going through the first month, I am very happy that you are still watching this play for us. I hope you can accept this Hamlet that we made together.
WOWOW “HAMLET” 放送記念インタビュー
単独インタビュー
○ 舞台出演について
僕の初舞台が蜷川さんでして、一番最初に蜷川さんとやれたということは僕にとってはすごく財産で、そして舞台の面白さを、そして怖さをすごく教えてもらったので、本当に舞台を好きになるきっかけを作ってくれたので、ほんとに感謝ですし、蜷川さんも見てくれてるだろうなーという気持ちで毎公演やらせてもらってますね、今。○ 舞台稽古について
あの、今回のハムレットはほんとにみんなで作った作品で、みんなでアイデアを出してこのシーンの解釈をみんなのアイデアで埋めて、そして演出に盛り込んでいくというスタイルだったので、僕がハムレットを演じていますが、なんか本当にみんなで作っていったような、ほんとにキャストでほんとに一日一日稽古場でみんなでアイデアを出して作っていって。ほんとによくしゃべるので、それは苦労はしてましたけど、でもほんとにみんなで作ったっていう印象の方がすごく大きいですかねえ。
○ カンパニーについて
コミュニケーションはほんとにみんな大切にというようなことをよくサイモンは言っていて、みんな最初稽古が始まる前にちっちゃい円になって、みんなの体の状態であったり心の状態を確認してから稽古に入ったりとかほんとに稽古場は基本的にオープンな感じで、ただ今日この方が元気だなあとか、今日なんかやなことあったんだなーってことがほんとに一日通してわかるので、そういうのは僕は初めてだったので、だからこそ今回のカンパニーはすごくみんな、なんかちゃんと支えあって作ってるので。で、気づいたこともちゃんと指摘してそれで次の公演に生かして、今回も今も作ってるので、そのサイモンさんが作ってきたこのカンパニーはそのまま今現在も残ってる気がしますね。○ 初日を迎えて
や、すごい怖かったし、その怖さはほんとに…今回のハムレットという役はほんとに感じる役だったので、舞台で1人になった時はすごく怖くなってしまって。だけどそれをなんかほんと皆さんがライトで照らしてくれるように導いてくださったので、やっぱ最終的に終わった時には舞台って素敵だなあとも思ったし、このカンパニーでやれたハムレットっていうのはずっと僕の記憶の中に残っていく作品だなっていうのはすごく感じれた初日でした、うん。オフィーリア役、黒木華と
○ 演出家サイモン・ゴドウィンについて
将生（以下M）：ほんとにおもしろい人だったよね。華（以下H）：うん、面白かったですね。Good! Good! Yeah! みたいな…。けっこうこっちもちゃんとテンション上げてくれるように自分も上がってらっしゃった…。
M:そう、前、華ちゃんも言ってたけど、ほんとにまず否定はしなくて、まず役者をほめて、で、そこから修正していく感じとかねえ…。
H:そうですね。
M:すごく素敵だし。苦労したことに関しては、サイモン、こう…なんて言うんだろ、回りくどいこと言わないでさ、一言「こうだ！」とか言う時に、最初理解できなかったのは、「マサキ違う!こうでこうで、こうなんだよ!」って言われても、いやぜんぜんわかんない、っていうのがちょっと苦労したけど、それもだんだんわかってくるようになってきたから楽しかったし…。
H:こうなんだ、ってどういうやつですか？
M:や、だからあれだよ。マサキ、マスターだ！って…。
H:あーそうかそうか。猫だ!とか…。
M:そう、マサキ、猫だ！って言われるんです。猫だ!しか言われないんですよ、そのシーンに関して。じゃ僕は猫っぽくやればいいんだ、とか。マスターになれとか、トラになれとか、いろんな…のだけで作ってきた感じが。ははは。
H:そうですよね。それが、でもだんだん理解できていく感じが…面白かったですね。
M:んー、面白かったね。あ、そうか、求められているものがだんだんわかってくるというのはすごくいい関係性だし…ねえ。演出と僕たちキャストがねえ。だからすごい楽しい稽古場だったなーなんか…。今日何が待ってるんだろうと思いながら毎日やってたし…。
○ お気に入りのシーン
H:ボローニアス家のシーンは好きですね。やっぱ、明るいし…。M:明るいんだよね。
H:幸せなシーンがそこしかないので…。
M:そうだよね。
H:はい。
M:オレ幸せなシーン一個もないもん。
H：ははは。
M:ないからねえ。始まっちゃうともうどん底なんだよねー。
H:たしかに、最初っからね。その中にもけっこう、わっ！てなるシーンはないんですか?
M:いや、やっぱりホレイシオとさあ、ちゃんと真相を掴んだ瞬間の時とかはやっぱ二人で楽しくお芝居できてるし…。
H:あそこいいですよね。
M:うーん、なんかそれもまあ多分、今回お客さん巻き込んでっていうのがあるから皆さんもちょっとなんというか共感してもらえるような瞬間もあるだろうし、そうですね。
○ 好きなセリフは
M:自分をほめてるわけじゃなくて、意味合いとしてこのセリフってすごくいいセリフだなって、毎日けっこう違ったりして、それこそ「生きるべきか死ぬべきか」とかももちろん本当に有名なセリフだから好きなんだけど、なんかぜんぜんちがう普通の会話の中でもセリフが意外に良かったりとか、こないだとかはやっぱりこれも有名だけど、「無常の風は」…とかもやっぱすてきなんだけど、「なるようになればよい」っていうのがなんかやっぱどんどんやっていくうちに重みが増してきたなあっていうのがあって、最近けっこう好きになってきた。H:わたし最後のセリフ好きです。
M:え、なに最後の…
H:あの、「そうやって黙って見ているのは観客か…」なんか全部、こう始まったのがドキッとする、見てる人がドキッとする瞬間だと思って…
M:こないださあ、あのう前の方のお客さんかなあ、多分目が合ったと思ったんだろうね。どんどんみんな（口を手で覆う）って、みんな目をそらしていくんだよね（笑）。
H:そうですね。
M:だから面白いなあと思って…。どんどん…オレこうやって見てるから、どんどん連鎖的にこう…（目を手で覆う）って…（笑）。それがなんか面白かった。
○ 楽しかったシーン
H:ぶどう投げるシーンがありましたが（笑）、あれ毎回個数変えたり、投げなかったり、苺にしてみたり、実はマイナーチェンジを毎回しているってこととか、玉置さんとかが裏で走って、ボルティに全然関係ないお菓子を渡してたりとかすることがあるっていうのを、ちょっとふざけすぎですよ、みたいな…。けっこう新鮮にできるようにみんなわりと少しずつ変えたりはしてましたね。一（はじめ）さんのところとかも変えたりとか…。M:そうかそうか。
H:わたし、膝にハムレットを…膝枕するシーンがあるんですけど、ちょっとふざけてらっしゃる時があって（笑）、はっ！とか言ってるのを私はいつも笑いそうになるのをこらえてます。
M:興奮してるからねえ。はっ！はっ！って…。ずっと華ちゃんにそういうことをやってんだよね、反応してくれるのを見てね…。
H:ないとちょっとさみしい。
M:あっはっは！…まあ、なんかほんとに皆さん、お客さんが楽しんで見てもらってるように僕たちも楽しくお芝居しているっていうのが伝わればいいなあっていうのは、ほんとに思いますね。
○ 見どころについて
H:結構なんていうか疾走感のある芝居だなって思っていて、あとキャラクターが、ハムレットとオフィーリアとかだけじゃなくて、ほんとに出てる人物それぞれの裏のエピソードだったりが、人間関係がすごく浮き出す芝居になっていると思うので、まあこう、生で見るのとたぶん放送で見るのとでは違いますけど、放送で見るからこそ役者さんたちの細かい表情だったりも見れると思うので、楽しんで見ていただけたらと思います。M:この時期、このキャスト、スタッフ、そしてサイモンがいて、このハムレットが出来上がって、そしてまだ出来上がってなくて、すごく伸びしろがある作品で、それをみんなでどんどん追求していいものを作っていける作品だとおもうので、その一瞬を見てもらえる一日、この一か月通した上でのを、見てもらえるっていうのはすごくうれしいし、僕たちが作ったハムレットをちゃんと受け止めてほしいな、っていうのは思っています。
